anybody like Ingres? I do.

Anybody believe Hockney when he said Ingres used a n artificial device to draw his portraits.

I like Ingres and respect his drawing abilities. I don't care if he used a device or not, his drawing skill still shows through. He was a master. Norman Rockwell used a projector to aid in making his deadlines...but he could DRAW to begin with. I hold draftsmanship in high esteem and no matter how well you paint...if you can't draw...you're not an artist in my mind. My 2 cents for what its worth.

I have seen many of his painting and drawings his skill is in the highest order. I don't care what Hockney put in his book. He was just out to make sales. Hockney isn't Ingres. Maybe when you don't have the skill you try to take the skill away from those who do or did. Even if a device was used, it was used with understanding. I don't think he did.

Is the important question how one gets to an end or is it the end itself? Is not the artist's work that stands alone the testament to one's skill, ability and eye or are the tools and tricks one uses to produce the piece what is important? Do you really want to know how a whether a writer uses a pencil or a computer, how a writer writes to enjoy their novel? While skill and technique are important for us as artists to share and learn from each other, is it so important that the tricks, shortcuts and techniques we use to make the art be revealed and opened for judgement- does it really lessen the artistic value of a piece if you know a photo was used as reference instead of a live model? I think the final pieces speak for themselves and should stand on their own merits as art.

quote:

Originally posted by moonart:
Is the important question how one gets to an end or is it the end itself? Is not the artist's work that stands alone the testament to one's skill, ability and eye or are the tools and tricks one uses to produce the piece what is important? Do you really want to know how a whether a writer uses a pencil or a computer, how a writer writes to enjoy their novel? While skill and technique are important for us as artists to share and learn from each other, is it so important that the tricks, shortcuts and techniques we use to make the art be revealed and opened for judgement- does it really lessen the artistic value of a piece if you know a photo was used as reference instead of a live model? I think the final pieces speak for themselves and should stand on their own merits as art.

What rot! Of course it is important HOW one gets to the end of the journey.If you want to be philosophical, then the trip was the important part of the journey. Are you a university professor whos' job it is to teach theory?
The artist using a photograph doesn't depend on a structured image. It is an image much like the model.However, tracing on an overlay is like taking from innocence.It is the same as thief!
It limits ones' ability to train one's senses, to create from the soul!
You do hsve a soul, don't you? Growth comes from practice and practice will get you to Carnegie Hall!
Oh, yes it is the Artists work that stands alone as a testament to one's work. It is not the work of others taken from a slide projector.Use of such a device should be limited to practice and not for the purpose of creating art!Tricks, shortcuts & techniques are the results of practice. They are important to creating art and they are learned from practice!
I hope to hear back from you on this matter.

hey, take it easy, Kells! I agree with you, but I don't think Moonart's soul is in question!

eek i agree calm down kells, whether you agree or disagree with some tools, and they are all tools, you really have to be cautious about tossing opinions around that are so strongly slanted...your sounding like Gauguin, when he attached Van Gogh for being unkept and disorganized in his life and painting methods...
what harm does it do you if another uses any tool? none....you must stand on your own...alone with your own creative vision..and let another stand on theirs...

mmm was it Degas who invented that first free standing graph?
and Vermeer who used that lil magic box with mirrors?....and truly can yousay they did not master their art?

howdy. new here.

a big problem with many people when they are shown a complex drawing method, is they believe that every drawing will be as slow and as akward as the first few trys.
with time, these steps become much more natural and even second nature. some students are taught to measure with a nitting needle, but as they get more comfortable and confident they rely less on that and more on their instincts.

just like the piano, a student may look to see where he's putting his fingers at first. with time and hard work, he just knows where everything is.

well said, pooper.